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 US guns flowing to Mexico ??? 
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 Post subject: US guns flowing to Mexico ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:23 am 
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The Other 75%: … Not "90% of the total number of guns recovered from the cartels," but 90% of those that the Mexican government reports to the BATFE. So how many is that? According to Senator Kerry, not very many. “Only about one out of every four weapons seized by Mexican authorities last year was submitted to the ATF so they could be traced back to purchasers and sellers in the United States.” So in regard the other 75% of the weapons, the Mexican government - for whatever reason - is keeping the BATFE in the dark. Could it be that the other 75% (or a large majority thereof) have not been sold in the U.S. civilian market, and that for that information to become known would undermine arguments to restrict U.S. gun rights - something Mexico has advocated for years? …

http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Louis ... s-Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Righ ... artels-Why


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:49 am 
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>>> Dan Gifford <@keyway.net> 03/31/09 5:12 PM >>

The ‘America Is Arming Mexico’s Drug Gangs’ LIE
By Dan Gifford
Producer, writer, actor
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/author/dgifford/
BIG HOLLYWOOD
March 31, 2009
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dgiff ... more-93206
(Go to site for photo and internal links)


“There is an iron river of guns that flows South into Mexico [from the
United States] to supply criminal organizations on the border,” says Tom
Mangan, senior special agent with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms (ATF) in Phoenix. “They are in the market for machine guns,
hand grenades, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and Stinger
anti-aircraft missiles,” he continues. That’s right. The drug gangs
can’t buy that and other military stuff like the 40MM grenades (the
silver things in the upper left) and the rifles with launchers shown in
the photo below in Mexico, so they drive to the United States and
purchase them from American gun dealers at retail. Isn’t that the story
you’ve been told? Well, congratulations. America’s First Amendment
protected propaganda ministry has punked you on another important issue
— this time on behalf of dissembling officials and gun confiscation
advocates.

For the benefit of those who may not know, machine guns (not the same
thing as the demonized “semi-automatic”), hand grenades,
rocket-propelled grenade launchers, Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and
other such military items are illegal to possess by US civilians, which
means they are not for sale in gun stores. OK, in the interest of
extreme accuracy for anyone in need, there are some civilian owned
machine-guns in America, but they all have to have been registered with
the ATF by 1986 as evidence that a special Treasury tax has been paid
and the owner’s residence state has to approve the possession. What’s
more, none of these arms has ever been involved in a crime, to my
knowledge [true - JEO], and all are considered very pricey collectors items. That
means they are not for sale to or in the hands of Mexican drug goons.

That raises some questions:

If Mexican gangsters are not buying military weapons in the United
States, why do people like ATF officials, Attorney General Holder,
Secretary of State Clinton, gun prohibitionists like Sarah Brady and
multitudes of media talking heads claim they are while calling for an
American “assault weapon” ban they say will to keep the Mexican drug
gangs from buying what they really aren’t buying here because they can’t?

And if Mexican gangsters are not buying their military weapons in
America from gun dealers as claimed, where are they buying them?

Confused? Well, as Fox News’ pundit Charles Krauthammer explained in one
of his 1996 Washington Post columns, the answer to question one is quite
simple:

"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is symbolic — purely
symbolic … In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no effect either
on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good
idea … Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to
desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for
their ultimate confiscation … Ultimately, a civilized society must
disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquillity
of the kind enjoyed in sister democracies like Canada and Britain … Yes,
Sarah Brady is doing God’s work."

Krauthammer is able to so clearly state the obvious that most government
officials, politicians, gun banners and reporters keep denying because
he does not have to lie to voters in order to stay in office or keep
donations coming in, as Sarah Brady does. Neither do I. So please note
that all the public safety blather about “plastic guns” that can evade
metal screener detection, “cop killer bullets” that are specifically
made to murder police officers, “Saturday Night Specials” which are
unsafe for anyone to possess (except for police — there’s always a
police exception) and the other oft repeated gun control paradigms are
simply bogus media-ready scare phrases that have zero to do with public
safety and everything to do with eventually outlawing the private
ownership of firearms.

Maybe you agree with that goal and maybe you don’t, but that’s the
object of “reasonable gun control” advocacy.

The answer to the second question is equally obvious. Gun running from
the United States into Mexico has been going on since the 1800s. But the
stuff bought or stolen here is not the military weaponry we are
continually told is arming the gangs there. This paragraph from a Los
Angeles Times story managed to get the story right even if nobody else
in the media will report it:

"Most of these [military] weapons are being smuggled from Central
American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are
focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons
purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico,
Arizona and California. . . . The enhanced weaponry represents a wide
sampling from the international arms bazaar, with grenades and launchers
produced by U.S., South Korean, Israeli, Spanish or former Soviet bloc
manufacturers. Many had been sold legally to governments, including
Mexico’s, and then were diverted onto the black market. Some may be sold
directly to the traffickers by corrupt elements of national armies,
authorities and experts say … These groups appear to be taking advantage
of a robust global black market and porous borders, especially between
Mexico and Guatemala. Some of the weapons are left over from the wars
that the United States helped fight in Central America, U.S. officials
said."

Stratfor, a private intelligence agency, noted more:

"Grenades used in three recent attacks in Monterey, Mexico, and
Pharr, Texas, all originated from the same lot delivered from South Korea."

So let’s recap.

Attorney General Holder, Secretary of State Clinton, ATF officials and a
host of others claim that an “assault weapon ban” against American
civilians will keep Mexican drug cartels with gazillions of dollars in
their jeans from buying military weapons on the international black market.

Hey, makes sense to me.

Latte anyone?

###


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:50 am 
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Quote:
That Mythical 90% Figure: … Which brings us to one "reporter" who does parrot [Brady Campaign] talking points, Matthew Price of BBC News, who "authoritatively" tells his readers: It is estimated that at least 90% of the guns used by the Mexican drug trafficking organizations have come from the US.” … I'd like to share with you a bit of testimony, from the Statement of David Ogden, Deputy Attorney General, United States Department of Justice, before the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs hearing entitled “Southern Border Violence: Homeland Security Threats, Vulnerabilities, and Responsibilities”, presented March 25, 2009. Just a small bit, really, but a critical one, almost lost in the 20 pages of his statement: “According to ATF’s Tracing Center, 90 percent of the firearms about which ATF receives information are traceable to the United States.” Read it again, and compare it to what the antis are saying. It's very different, isn't it? [NOTE: Mexico does not request traces on seized fully automatic military weapons nor will Mexico release the serial numbers of all the weapons seized. They are "cooking the books" in a country where official corruption is the standard of conduct.]


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:51 am 
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Kerry, Clinton, Holder, B.O., Brady, Kennedy, Mexican Gov., BATFE, on, and on.........

IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING THEY'RE LYING :!: :!: :!: :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:48 am 
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The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/electio ... r-claimed/


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Has anyone considered the possibility that American weapons in the hands of Mexican criminals got there by way of Mexican government corruption? That is, we give military aid to the Mexican government, in the form of weapons, then some armorer thereof decides to make a little extra cash, selling the guns out the back door?

Full auto weapons are hard to find in the US civilian market, but they are abundant in military aid.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:04 pm 
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I suspect the whole "Mexico guns"issue is just a pretext for more gun control. It's all the same folks that always have supported gun control that suddenly became concerned about the guns of the Mexican bandits. (Hillary Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, etc. )

They've had Brady support and friendship for years, and are expected to deliver some legislation now that they are the majority party. If they can tie it to "terrorism", "gangs", "drugs", "illegals", or foreign relations, instead of our rights as Americans, they'll pick up support for an assualt weapons ban.

It does not seem like an issue which has really received any study. Mexico was probably prompted to make this complanit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:12 pm 
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I have said it before and will say it again...

Mexico should build a border fence :lol: :lol: :lol:

Problem (or perceived problem) solved.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Well, the "border is the middle of the river". The river meanders a bit, and the water and derbis would kind of tough on the fence, and a hazard to navigation, I think.

Fences would have to be built on the edge of the flood plain, which would effectively cede the whole river and southern flood plain to the United States. Of course, the US could not enforce laws south of mid stream, cuz that's Mexico, and our bad guys could gather would gather north of the fence where, the Mexican police could not get to them, and make faces at the US Border Patrol.

There will never be a fence, in either Mexico or the United States. It's just something to argue about, I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:40 pm 
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It isn't surprising to see the antis telling lies, it is what they do best. Our goal is to hold them accountable. :evil:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:05 am 
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chunkstyle wrote:
Has anyone considered the possibility that American weapons in the hands of Mexican criminals got there by way of Mexican government corruption? That is, we give military aid to the Mexican government, in the form of weapons, then some armorer thereof decides to make a little extra cash, selling the guns out the back door?

Full auto weapons are hard to find in the US civilian market, but they are abundant in military aid.


+1 that's by far the most plausible explanation.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:48 am 
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kimberman wrote:
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.



It all boils down to demonizing an inanimate object and not focusing on the criminal who uses them illegally.

Punish all to stop the few.

Point being, this is all a prep to the final agenda to reinstate the AWB.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:00 am 
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Scott Hughes wrote:
Kerry, Clinton, Holder, B.O., Brady, Kennedy, Mexican Gov., BATFE, on, and on.........

IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING THEY'RE LYING :!: :!: :!: :!:


They lie without moving their lips too.

On paper....


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Did the un-stopable raging southern flowing "river of guns" dry up? The media sure laid off this abruptly.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:05 am 
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Something else shiny -- piggy flu, in this case -- caught their eye.

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