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Glock grip angle theory
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=275		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Pakrat [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Glock grip angle theory
First let me state that I respect Glock and their guns. I even have the 26/27 on my wishlist.

Here's what I've been thinking (theory):
Police do not have a good reputation for hitting their target (unless it's on the ground :wink: ), what do you think the chance of the grip angle effecting that is? Glocks are accurate, in a range situation. But, do people have the so-called "muscle memory" to shoot Glocks accurately in a stress situation?

To me the Glock grip angle makes it more a point and shoot gun, not really to be brought all the way up to your eyeline. Like in the olden days with revolvers and cowboys shooting from the hip. When I aim a Glock, I bring it up to my line of sight, and the natural aim is high.

While I was looking for pictures to illustrate what I have to do with my wrists to aim the Glock, I noticed something. It looked almost as if the people holding the Glocks were grabbing higher on the gun, as if to make it a 'natural' angle.
Don't they look like they are gripping too high?
Image
Image

Picture of how I think the Glock may need to be held:
Image
Author:  mnblaster [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree, I have to "think" too much when I shoot a Glock. Maybe I am too used to shooting other types.
Author:  grayskys [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I learned to shoot using a single action .45 acp, the glock for me pointed a bit high because of the grip angle, but with some practice (retraining my muscles) it comes up just right.

Interestingly enough the Springfield XD has the same grip angle as a Single Action .45acp
Author:  JCinMN [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I really like glocks but I noticed this as well, it seems the natural grip angle on them makes me point way high and I find it uncomfortable to point because it seems like I have to angle my wrists unnaturally low.

The XD does not seem to have that problem and points very naturally for me.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think there's any such thing as a "too-high" grip.

The closer to the barrel you are, the less flip-up. Those grips are just the mark of good shooters.

Besides, the angle is the same regardless of how high you hold it...
Author:  Pakrat [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is what I mean, if you picture the web of your hand in the spot at the top of the line, it can change the angle you're holding the gun.
Image
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oho. That does make sense.

But I'll maintain that a higher grip is inherently better, and that good shooters do it regardless of the gun's native grip angle.
Author:  goalie [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew sure shot my G17 just fine a few weeks ago. :wink:

On a serious note though, just like one needs a bow that fits them to bowhunt effectively, one needs a firearm that "fits" them as well to shoot effectively. There is no holy grail. There is no single "best" gun for everyone. Also, if you train with a Glock, you may have trouble switching platforms to something else (and vice versa), but that is true of ANY switching between firearm platforms. One of the main reasons I switched to a G26 for carry was because I shoot a G17 a lot, and I was seeing a degredation in my ability to draw and shoot fast and accurately with my 3" SP101 revolver since I was rarely shooting it anymore. Once I switched to a G26 for carry, I found that I do not have to shoot it nearly as often as the SP101 to stay proficient with it, as it is pretty much exactly the same as my G17 (that I shoot a lot), with just a slightly shorter grip (I have the Pierce extensions on).

FWIW, I have seen people who the Glock platform was an incredibly bad fit for from an ergonomic standpoint. People with small hands and really short fingers come to mind.
Author:  goalie [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pakrat wrote:
This is what I mean, if you picture the web of your hand in the spot at the top of the line, it can change the angle you're holding the gun.
Image


I found that the higher I grip a Glock, the lower the gun will point naturally for me. I use a high, thumbs-foward, crush-type grip with equal pressure from both hands.
Author:  Pakrat [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
But I'll maintain that a higher grip is inherently better, and that good shooters do it regardless of the gun's native grip angle.

I can understand that.

Goalie wrote:
I found that the higher I grip a Glock, the lower the gun will point naturally for me. I use a high, thumbs-foward, crush-type grip with equal pressure from both hands.

Real life confirmation.

So, to bring it back to my theory, is this why(one reason why) cops have a not-so-good reputation for hitting their targets in a stressful situation?

I suppose I should say I have no idea what it's like to hit a target under stress. This is a look into one possible reason.

Oh, any comments on the shooting from the hip style hold?
Author:  BigRedBowtie [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Somewhat of a Rabbit-Trail follows:

In speaking with a Glock "Armorer" (regional sales rep., best I can tell) at my chiro's office one day, he asked me if I had any Glocks. (topic was... er- guns) "Nope- darn things just don't point right for me, I haven't found one I liked shooting yet"

He explained that the design of the Glock grip angle was purposely designed to roll the wrist silghtly downward, so as to line up the bones behind the first and second fingers with the bones in the forearm. This is supposed to allow a more stable platform for the weapon to recoil against, which, in turn, lends itself to better reliability and quicker recovery. He likened it to punching- and that a punch with the first two knuckles is less likely to break something than a punch on the ring and pinky knuckles.

How much truth there was in all that? I don't know, but that's what he told me. They still don't point right for me, and I still want an XD.
Author:  Pakrat [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
BigRedBowtie wrote:
He explained that the design of the Glock grip angle was purposely designed to roll the wrist silghtly downward, so as to line up the bones behind the first and second fingers with the bones in the forearm. This is supposed to allow a more stable platform for the weapon to recoil against, which, in turn, lends itself to better reliability and quicker recovery. He likened it to punching- and that a punch with the first two knuckles is less likely to break something than a punch on the ring and pinky knuckles.

oooo, great explaination. I have not heard that one.
Author:  durbin6 [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Glock Grip angle vs Springfield XD
Shoot a Glock , then shot an XD both from the holster, two shots COM as fast as you can. My experience has been (And this statement applies to me, not everyone) that I can shoot the XD much faster because it points more naturally. Compare the grip angle of both of them, both are designed to be held high on the grip but the XD has a steeper grip angle than the Glock.

The following is taken from Guns and Ammo:
Getting A Grip
One thing most of us look at when we choose a gun is how it feels and points, since we all have "muscle memory" from previous handgun experience. Many serious pistoleros teethed on the Colt 1911 and its grip angle is what's natural for them. It is also one of the criticisms leveled at Glock. Europeans rarely care about grip angels, since few Europeans get to handle firearms of any sort, and the makers assume that neophyte police and military trainees will adapt to whatever they're given. That's true, with reservations. Americans are different. Our legacy of a free association with firearms builds notions that are difficult to crack. Even many first-time purchasers have some shooting experience already through family and friends and, when buying the first, second or third gun, any new engineering attributes of such are weighed against the shooters' prior experience and training. Dedicated 1911 users often point a Glock skyward (and vice versa) and that makes some pause before buying. So Springfield Armory chose to build its new X-treme Duty series based on the 1911 grip angle in deference to the millions in circulation. By doing so, the company silently leaps that first sales hurdle.
Author:  Srigs [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I tried shooting a Glock 19 and it points like crap for me. So, I have passed on all Glocks I have looked at. The gun must fit my hand.
Author:  durbin6 [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Selection
I cut my teeth on a 1911 45 and still like the way it feels in my hands. It's great to have a good selection of handguns to choose from and I recommend trying out a few of them before purchasing. The last thing you want is something that "points like crap". :wink:
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