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S&W J Frames
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Author:  hypertech [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  S&W J Frames
My wife has decided to take the carry course and she seems to like the hammerless S&W J frame (though she hasn't fired it). I'd like her to carry especially when she's out by herself at night so I want to encourage her and get her her own gun.

So, I decided to look up some information on them and I'm having trouble figuring out what the difference is between all the models.

Can someone explain the chief differences between the models?

I'm something of a novice myself and really don't know anything about revolvers.

Thanks.
Author:  Mike [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Though a bit of a pain to navigate at times, the S&W website does a pretty fair job of explaining their product. Have you picked a caliber?
Author:  hypertech [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Again, very novice about revolvers. If I am reading right, the choice is 38 or 357. This is for my wife and she is somewhat recoil sensitive so I think that means 38. I've heard there are some very good defense rounds made specifically for 38 snubby revolvers so that should work out OK.

I'm also thinking she will want it to have some mass so the felt recoil is lower. I'm not sure which metal is the best compromise between weight and recoil. I'm assuming she will keep it in her purse most of the time so I'm not sure weight is that critical.
Author:  mo_the_mouse [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
The best advice I can give you is to go shoot one. I have a 642 J frame in 38. The recoil isn't terrible but it is a touch small for my hand. It is very light weight and the +P rounds will be felt.

So.... I would try Bills and shoot one. Shoot many! Buy one that feels good, points good and that she likes to shoot.

Just my .02

Welcome to the board.
Author:  hypertech [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the welcome.

It looks like Bill's just has the 642 for rent. Hopefully she likes that one and I will have her try it before buying one if at all possible.

I'm not sure how to get a hold of another option to try before the next shooter show and I'd prefer not to wait that long.

When we looked at them at the store, the rep was trying to be helpful but pretty much said here is the one with the hammer and here is the one without. There appear to be many more options than just that, so I wanted to make sure we had looked at all the right things.
Author:  plblark [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
My dad took his wife (both in their sixties) to the range the other day and recoil was less of an issue than finger strength and double vs single action on my Taurus 85 Ultralight. Dad's wife said the ultralight was so short and light she really pulled it up off target in DA. I think you might want to look into a good spring / trigger job on any revolver you buy. That might be hard to do on a try before you buy basis...

Perhaps someone here will be able to help you out.
Author:  Selurcspi [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
mo_the_mouse wrote:
The recoil isn't terrible but it is a touch small for my hand. .


I told you, change the grips.

Welcome Hypertech.

The change the grip advice works for almost all revolvers. Providing the frame of the gun is not too large to begin with, then the grips can be changed to fill the hand correctly. The J frame works for most ladies hands, because the frame is small and the grips can be changed to allow for all sizes of hand.

Have your wife test as many as she can and let her choose.
Author:  westhope [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Basically there are steel or stainless frame and cylinder versions. Aluminum frame and stainless steel cylinder versions. Aluminum frame and titanium cylinder versions. Cost is cheapest for the steel versions to the most expensive for the aluminum / titanium. Weight is greatest for the steel and least for the aluminum / titanium. There are also usually versions in the above of exposed hammers, recessed hammers and hammerless. Barrel lengths are usually 2 or 3 inches. Calibers are usually 22 LR rimfire, 32 H&R Magnum (it may no longer be available new but can be found used), 38 Special, 9 mm and 357 Magnum.

Weight can be good and bad. Light weight is good when you carry it around all day. Bad when it comes to recoil. I find the aluminum / titanium versions in 38 special and 357 Magnum unusable due to the recoil. Some people don’t. The lighter the gun the more it will usually cost. The titanium versus stainless cylinder will cost a couple hundred dollars more. Weight difference is about 3 ounces.

The exposed or recessed hammer versions can be shot either single action or double action. (Single Action, you cock the hammer manually and the trigger pull is shorter and lighter, Double Action, you cock and fire by a longer and heavier pull on the trigger.) Hammerless version can only be shot Double Action. The big advantage of the hammerless or recessed hammer versions is that the hammer will not snag on something when drawn.

Barrel lengths are usually about 2 inches long. Some are 3 or 4 inches long. The shorter the barrel length the easier it is to carry. The longer the barrel, the easier it is to hold a sight picture along with some increase in performance of the round.

Usually the minimum recommended calibers for self defense are 38 Special and 9mm. Any caliber is better than not carrying a gun due to not being able to handle the recoil.

You can also get various grip styles. Grips can be changed easily for a different feel of the handgun.

I believe, by far, the most popular model of J-frame on this forum for self-defense purposes is the S&W Model 642. It is a hammerless, Double Action only, aluminum frame, stainless steel cylinder, 2 inch barrel, 5 shot, 38 Special.

I personally own 3 S&W J-frames. A 642. A 432 (aluminum frame, stainless steel cylinder, 6 shot, 32 H&R Magnum, 2 inch barrel, Double Action only). And a 317 (aluminum frame, aluminum cylinder,8 shot, 22 LR rimfire, 3 inch barrel, exposed hammer). I live in the country and carry the 317 around my property. I don’t carry it for self-defense although 8 rounds of 22 LR is better than nothing. (The intruder recently killed by the 73 year old man used one shot from a rifle in 22 LR.)
Author:  hypertech [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm going to file for my carry permit Friday (there may be a Sig 239 vs Kahr K40 thread later). She has agreed to the class as a good idea but hasn't warmed up to actually carrying yet. I don't want to overwhelm her. I think this needs to be a "what do you think about this one here" decision. I'm sure once she gets into it a little more, she'll be teaching me a few things and picking out her own guns. She's already a better shot than I am. :?

I think we may just visit the display case after the class and see if we can figure this out.
Author:  westhope [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Let her decide on the gun that feels right for her. Biggest mistake a guy can make is to tell her what she needs. Give her time to decide. If possible have her try as many as possible.
Author:  hypertech [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
She's already seen the J frame and likes it. I didn't realize there were so many J frames to choose from.

I guess what I meant was that if I knew two or three to show her or at least be able to explain the differences and let her pick, that will work. If I send her to S&W website and tell her to look at the J frames and decide which she wants to try, she will never pick one.

Never pick one = never shoot it = never carry.

I'd much rather make a mediocre decision and get her to start going to the range with me and think harder about carrying in the event that she may have to defend herself from some wacko than not.

That way even if she winds up finding a different gun she wants instead and decides she doesn't like this one anymore, at least she got going.

It sounds like between changing the grips and a trigger job, just about any of them are probably fine. The real trick is going to be balancing the weight against the recoil. I'll get her to shoot the 642 and then hold the others. Hopefully that will help her make the decision.
Author:  onebohemian [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you get a 642, buy some snap caps and dry fire it 1- to 2000 times. Smooths out the trigger immensely, making the pull feel lighter. There is a huge (like 45 pages worth) running forum topic on the 642 over at thehighroad.com that is worth the read. There are plenty of comments throughout that one post regarding the other S&W J frames as well.

Something else you may want to consider is a Kel-Tec P3AT (P.380). They are incredibly small autos, weighing about 8 ounces. Although only a .380, they still can pack a punch with the right carry ammo. The price is about $130 less than the 642 as well. They really have one purpose, which is close quarters self-defense.
Author:  Greg [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Smith 642 is natures most perfect carry gun.

It's rated for +P loads but you can practice with cheap 38 Wadcutters.

Plus it's very simple to operate, the original point and click interface!
Author:  Selurcspi [ Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a thought,

You mentioned that your wife is still recoil averse; you might try a 4" K frame with a grip that fits her hand that can be duplicated on a J frame. If two guns are in your budget, she can begin by practicing with the heavier K frame which will not recoil as badly as the lighter J frame. This will allow her to become more comfortable shooting and practice more. Which in turn will make her more comfortable with the J frame later.

.02
Author:  hypertech [ Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Right now, if 2 guns are in the budget, one is for me and one is for her. If only one is, then it will be for her and I'll figure out how to carry a full size auto. She won't get an "extra" for a little while.

The reason I mentioned recoil is that we shot 9's and 40's before we settled on 9's for our first 2 guns because she really didn't like the recoil of the 40. Since I've not shot a 38, I really don't know if they are more like a 9 or a 40.

She has even expressed an interest over different brands of ammunition because of the differences in felt recoil. If it seems too sharp to her, she'll stop shooting and ask for the other brand ammo. She seems to like the Magtech and so do I which is probably good because it isn't that expensive.

She's seen me shoot a 45 and I can't convince her to shoot it. She really is a strong lady and can do it just fine. I think once she decides this is something she needs to do and needs to practice, she'll get over it. Last night's shooting downtown was only a couple blocks from where she works - this may not be an issue any longer, we'll see.

Given the small size and very light weight of these guns, I am anticipating that recoil will be an issue. I guess I really won't know until after I get her to shoot one.
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