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 Newbies and catch 22 gun selection 
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 Post subject: Newbies and catch 22 gun selection
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:43 am 
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As a newbie about to take the class (not newbie to guns in general), any suggestions on gun selection when you can't buy anything at this point. Also applies to holsters etc. Since I have owned and still own handguns I have settled in to semi autos so that part of the decision (at least for me) is done. Now to decide on weight, size, caliber etc is another story. Obviously one wants a certain amount of stopping power which only kind of rules out very small calibers like 22, 32 but at what point is the weight or size a stopping point for any individual. I'm sure some don't mind the heft of carrying a DE50 but not very many. Others might want as light and inconspicuous as possible. How do you find that happy medium other than through other carry permit holders whom we don't know very many of as a newbie.

Certainly points toward using a loaner for the class but that also might not be the right way to go if you use a revolver and want a semi or visa-versa.

Then there is brand which from reading here appears in many cases to be more of a brand loyalty than actual quality. IE some here would NEVER even try a CZ and others seem to love them.

Sorry this is getting long but really seems to be stumping me more as I read more. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for a great forum.

Larry


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:12 pm 
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For people who have some experience and are making informed choices from the many good weapons being made, it comes down to: price, weight, and personal taste.

I like my Keltec and my Glock but am quite sure I would like a Rohrbaugh and a Sig better if I were willing to spend the money and put up with the extra weight, which I'm not. YMMV.

Then there are the 1911 guys but if you're one of them you probably already know what you want.

I spent an hour or two at each of a couple of gun shops looking around and asking questions, then read through manufacturer's web sites before deciding.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies and catch 22 gun selection
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:25 pm 
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larryflew wrote:
As a newbie about to take the class (not newbie to guns in general), any suggestions on gun selection when you can't buy anything at this point. Also applies to holsters etc. Since I have owned and still own handguns I have settled in to semi autos so that part of the decision (at least for me) is done. Now to decide on weight, size, caliber etc is another story. Obviously one wants a certain amount of stopping power which only kind of rules out very small calibers like 22, 32 but at what point is the weight or size a stopping point for any individual. I'm sure some don't mind the heft of carrying a DE50 but not very many. Others might want as light and inconspicuous as possible. How do you find that happy medium other than through other carry permit holders whom we don't know very many of as a newbie.
I hate to belabor the obvious, but: wait until you take your class. A good instructor will have lots of ideas for you; hear him or her out, and ask for explanations as to why, say, he recommends the SP101 for some and the 642 for others.
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Certainly points toward using a loaner for the class but that also might not be the right way to go if you use a revolver and want a semi or visa-versa.
No harm done, really. If it turns out that you shoot your qual with, say, a borrowed S&W 686+ but decide, later on figure out that, say, a Kahr PM9 is right for you, what's the harm?
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Then there is brand which from reading here appears in many cases to be more of a brand loyalty than actual quality. IE some here would NEVER even try a CZ and others seem to love them.
Yup. You'll find the same sort of thing about Taurus, Glock, and Keltec. And let's not even get into the humble Makarov.
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Sorry this is getting long but really seems to be stumping me more as I read more. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for a great forum.

Larry
A lot of folks have a lot of opinions, and about the only thing Al is sure of (and often right on) is when he says something like, "Here's what I do, and why I do it." But you're not Al.

Post about it here; that's cool. But, honest: you don't have to sort that out now, and you've got lots of time and will have the opportunity to handle lots of guns, before you have to make any decision at all.

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Last edited by joelr on Mon May 18, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:44 pm 
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I seem to recall a guy (or several, really) mentioning that the gun for you is the one that points well, handles well, and that you shoot well. Most other considerations pale in comparison. We can discuss the specifics all day (caliber, magazine size, et cetera), but the bottom line is any gun you are carrying that is reliable and that you shoot well is the right gun for you.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Jeremiah wrote:
I seem to recall a guy (or several, really) mentioning that the gun for you is the one that points well, handles well, and that you shoot well.
Works for me, although I'd add a long rant about reliability, as part of that "you shoot well" thing.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:52 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:
I seem to recall a guy (or several, really) mentioning that the gun for you is the one that points well, handles well, and that you shoot well.
Works for me, although I'd add a long rant about reliability, as part of that "you shoot well" thing.


I figured that was implied, but I added it in the second sentence... :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm 
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I'd agree with Jeremiah and Joel - there is no perfect gun, there's the gun that fits you, and you can handle it proficiently enough to do what you need it to.

Go to a gunshop (It's okay to peruse, and try a bunch, and not buy - the guys at Bill's know me on sight, and I don't buy something every time - they tempt me though!) and just try some on. Make note of what you like.

The wonderful thing to keep in mind: many of the manufacturers build around a single 'shape' - so caliber isn't a gun-choice, you find the frame that you like, with the features you like, then pick a caliber (Examples: Glock and Springfield; both have a relatively standard 'style' then just have them available in a variety of cailbers) that you're comfortable with the recoil, ammo capacity, and price.

Take your time, have fun, and you'll find the right one for you :-D


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Thanks for the advice guys. Decided to meet with an old time friend that used to own the outdoorsman in Hopkins. He has quite a few in his own collection, loves to talk and it's been waaaayyy too long since we have seen each other.

When I called him I got some flack for not having done this 10 years ago when he first started trying to convince me :bang: At that time my attitude ran much more towards hunting than any kind of self defense.

This forum has been really great for me - thanks again to all


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:02 pm 
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larryflew wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys. Decided to meet with an old time friend that used to own the outdoorsman in Hopkins. He has quite a few in his own collection, loves to talk and it's been waaaayyy too long since we have seen each other.

When I called him I got some flack for not having done this 10 years ago when he first started trying to convince me :bang: At that time my attitude ran much more towards hunting than any kind of self defense.

This forum has been really great for me - thanks again to all


Say Hi to John and Annie for me!

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"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:08 pm 
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I declared on kindergarten graduation that I was going to marry her when I grew up but alass.........

will do


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:16 pm 
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larryflew wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys. Decided to meet with an old time friend that used to own the outdoorsman in Hopkins. He has quite a few in his own collection, loves to talk and it's been waaaayyy too long since we have seen each other.

When I called him I got some flack for not having done this 10 years ago when he first started trying to convince me :bang: At that time my attitude ran much more towards hunting than any kind of self defense.

This forum has been really great for me - thanks again to all
Oh. Say hi to him. I haven't seen him for a few months, now.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Q_Continuum wrote:
I'd agree with Jeremiah and Joel - there is no perfect gun,

Yes there is. It's the one you haven't bought, yet. Of course, once you buy it, it's not perfect, anymore, and the new "perfect" gun will be that one that catches your eye at Frontiersman, et al.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:26 pm 
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jdege wrote:
Q_Continuum wrote:
I'd agree with Jeremiah and Joel - there is no perfect gun,

Yes there is. It's the one you haven't bought, yet. Of course, once you buy it, it's not perfect, anymore, and the new "perfect" gun will be that one that catches your eye at Frontiersman, et al.


Too true... :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:02 pm 
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If a student does not have a handgun yet, plans to take my class and has no real idea what they need, I suggest that they wait until after the class. I have a minimum of 8 carry guns, sometimes up to 12 for the students to fondle, manipulate, and fire on the range if they ask, they just have to buy the ammo. I do suggest that they get their permit to purchase now, so that after class and they now know what they want, they can do a little serious shopping and not have to wait for their carry permit to arrive in the mail.

I really try to listen to what the students wants or think they need, what works for me in handguns and holsters may be totally wrong for them. Same reason that I have 2 tables of holsters in class, I go through what works for me, with me being over weight and works, may not work for someone that is the same height but 10 inches smaller in the waist.

If they have no clue, have no drive to really research or practice, but need a reliable defense handgun, then I will go out on a limb and suggest a 642 or SP101, again a noticeable difference in recoil and carry weight, but I can't make all their decisions for them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Yup. Perfect.

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