Hey all,

First real post here.
I have been considering the purchase of my first firearm. I went to the river center gun show this weekend, to purchase what was going to be my 1st firearm (870 Shotgun). I ended up thinking; I would have more fun shooting a Pistol. I have three-four good friends that have Pistols and meet regularly to shoot.

Now this would not be a Conceal carry gun. I feel this being my first gun, I should have significant training before I carry. Basically I don't want to buy a gun, take a class and be carrying in two weeks. My thoughts are that I should find a gun I like (yes it is a beauty contest) and spend some time at the range before I carry. After watching these forums it looks as though that many of you have previous military training or grown up hunting (ie: around firearms your whole life. I on the other have not. While my father has a nickel-plated 380 and 6 inch 357magnum revolver. Both of which I have fired and like. This did not happen every other weekend, more like twice a year. I really want to be comfortable with any weapon and myself before I decide to carry.

Whew! I feel like I just wrote a term paper! I hope it makes sense.

What I want as my first pistol is an m1911. I love the design and history of the m1911. I have pretty large hands. Most of the pistols I looked at the grip felt strange/loose in my hands. The 1911 felt as if it were fit to my hand. The model I have been looking at is the Rock Island Arms M1911A1-45 FSP. Money wise they are very affordable ($350-400).
Ammo could be a problem. .45 ammo is almost twice the price of 9mm.

Questions for those that have a .45 cal pistol.

1. Is the cost of the ammo a fun killer? Basically how expensive is it?

2. Besides the Conceal carry training. Is there a basic training coarse that would help a newby.

3. Is a large caliber pistol a bad Idea for a first gun?

4. Is there a m1911 copy available in 9mm?


Thanks for spending your night reading that.

Chad





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4. Is there a m1911 copy available in 9mm?

I just found a Advantage Arms" 1911 .22LR conversion kit . They sell for $200-250. This would definately drop the price on a days shoting.

Welcome to the forum.

Would a 1911 be my first choice? No but it could be yours.

A 1911 22LR kit would go a long way to cheaper shooting. Lot of time the 9mm version of the 1911 is more expensive to buy then a 45. If your looking for a 9mm but in a 1911 package you could look for a Hi Power which you can also get a 22LR conversion kit.

If your serious about getting a handgun, then go to your police dept and fill out a permit to purchase so you don't have to wait the 5 days.

Another way to start is to get a dedicated 22LR handgun to start learning with and then get your next gun after you get use to it. The second handgun I bought was a 22LR but should have IMHO bought it first.

Buy a used 22, mabe a Ruger with reasonable sights so you can hit the target. Go to a "real" gunstore that can give you advice, has "trade-ins, ect." Shoot up a couple thousand rounds over several days and practice handling your gun at home, drawing pointing, dry fire, muzzle control, Practice handling with your finger off the trigger, a lot.

When you shoot, start off shooting off a bench or a sandbag to steady the gun so you get good groups. That develops sighting skill and confidence. Learn that before practice about motor control.

You can trade the 22 and buy a 45 with the money you've saved on ammo.

I'd take a carry class soon. Which one? I only have taken one. I'm sort of contrarian, I'd take a more expensive course, It's only a cost difference equal to a couple of a few boxes of 45 ammo and I think they probably do a better job, include the book and have more time for you.

You only take one course, it takes a day, and you might as well enjoy the day. You don't need a gun to take a course, they'll have guns to use and you'll get objective advice from somebody who is real good at shooting and watched you shoot. And they'll teach you how, no extra charge.

(Don't worry, you'll pass the shooting part. It's easy.)

A .45 ACP can be a little much for a first handgun. I would not really lend my recommendation as a first gun. (opinions vary)

Getting a .22 is a VERY reasonable suggestion to get started - a 45 can give you some pretty bad habits right out of the gate. It would be important to go shooting with a COMPETENT INSTRUCTOR immediately so as to not develop any really hard to correct habits. .

45 ACP ammunition is about as costly as it gets for pistol ammo right off of the shelf.


YES 1911's are available in 9mm.... Not a bad idea. cost of ammunition is less - easier to shoot - and a darn fine caliber too....

Good luck and good shooting - welcome to the Forum...

1. a 1911 is a great gun, nothing wrong with it as a first...second...third...fourth etc. gun! RIA has a decent reputation, but for only a fraction more you can get a Springfield GI or Mil-Spec version that arguably is better.

I would not spend $$ to get a conversion kit. For the cost of the kit you can buy a dediated .22 pistol... In the $250 price range you can get a new S&W 22A, a Beretta Neos, a basic Ruger etc. You will, in my opinion, have as much or more fun with the dedicated gun. (Note...I have done this both ways and no longer have any conversion kits, but do have a handful of .22's).

A very nice dedicated .22, but more in the $350 range is the CZ Kadet. It is the same frame, size, weight etc. as the CZ75 and is a very nice gun to shoot.

I concur with the suggestion to get a permit...even if you do not feel comfortable carrying yet, the Permit acts as a permit to purchase, and makes transporting the gun(s) easier etc. I would only marginally disagree with the post that said take the more expensive Permit class. Good instructors are found at all ends of the price spectrum; and, I suspect, so are poor ones. Like anything else, price alone is not an indicator of quality. Ask around from people that have taken classes...they are an instrtuctor's best references.

--Little Edit Here---
My suggestion to seek a dedicated .22 over a conversion kit is premised on the thought that a person is looking to have experience, lerning how to shoot better etc. However, a conversion kit is a superb idea for a carry gun. A person can have the same basic weight, controls, etc. as their carry gun, can do tons of very cheap practice, and not break the bank.

What I like about the CZ Kadet is that it is the same gun as the CZ75 except for caliber...same weight, same holster, same everything...but cheap to practice.

The Glock conversions from Advantage Arms are also very good, but they are not the same weight/dimensions etc as the gun w/o the kit, making it cheap to shoot, same trigger control, same grip etc.. but not the same sights or weight.

Advantage Arms has an excellent reputation.

Yup to all that -- particularly about a .22 being a good place to start. You can learn everything you need to know (err, so to speak) about handling a 1911 with a .22, except handling recoil, and you can do it a lot less expensively.

I have never owned a .22 pistol for practice. Not that it would be cheaper or anything. Just never felt the need to get one yet.

I shoot both a Beretta 9mm and a Colt 1911. Both go to the range with me every time. I shoot the 9mm 3 times as much due to ammunition cost on the 1911. A box of 50 for the 9mm is currently around $8-9. The best price I can find for a box of .45 is $12-15.

The solution to ammo cost is reloading.

Before I buy a dedicated .22, I would get a .22 kit for my Beretta or the 1911. A friend of mine has a 1911 in .38 super with a conversion kit. We were quite surprised when we installed his conversion kit and it recoiled very similar to the .38 super.

As to a basic training course, you could find an NRA Basic pistol instructor. Phorvick is one of those. A nice guy to work with as well as a teacher. I teach about a 1/2 hour from you in Cokato at an outdoor range. There are several others that teach closer to the cities in an indoor range.

A large caliber gun (anything centerfire) should not be a distractor from starting to shoot. Unless you can't pick up a pencil, any of the defensive calibers should not be a problem to shot.

It's mostly been said already, but...

.22 to start is a good idea. I like shooting my .22 about as much as I like shooting any of my other pistols. .22's are fun.

Yes, you can get a 1911 style in 9mm. Like folks already said, they're usually not on the cheap side. Para Ordinance makes some nice 1911's, including some in 9mm. The cheapest Paras run at least $650. I suspect that their 9mm's are likely to be in the $800 range.

1. How much do you want to shoot? I might shoot 100 rounds in a shooting day. That's more than some, less than others. 100 rounds of .45 ACP is about $22. 100 rounds of 9mm is about $12. 100 rounds of .22 is $2. If you pay to shoot at a range and use up a few targets and buy a soda, shooting a .45 might cost you $50 for a range trip. That's a lot of money to some. But it's pretty cheap entertainment compared to your average pro sporting event. I can shoot a .22 in my backyard all afternoon and not spend more than $5. That gives you a little idea of what to expect for expenses; you'll have to judge your own tolerance. But I can tell you that I have a friend with a .454 revolver that doesn't have *any* fun with it because every single shot costs him $2 and he can't forget that.

2. There are beginner classes. I believe joelr has a "Beginner to Carry" course that takes you from basic familiarization all the way to getting a permit. I'm pretty sure Bill's Gun Shop has a beginner class. Paul Horvick and company (shootingsafely.com) does beginner classes, and probably also some other folks on here. I suggest you take an actual class from somebody who knows how to teach, and then find someone experienced to shoot with a few times. Experienced folks might do things right, but aren't always the best teachers.

3. Is it a bad idea? I'm not sure. My first pistol was a 9mm, and I handled it okay. But I had shot some before, and learned to shoot with a .22. I can't say "no, don't do it" but I can't recommend it either. Find a used .22 to start with. In a year or two, if you really want to, you can sell it for about what you paid for it. But I'll bet you'll like it too much to want to give it up.

4. There are 9mm 1911's. Not a lot, and they tend to come from the more high priced companies. Springfield and Para do for sure.

Yup, an NRA Basic Pistol class is a terrific way to start, and there are lots and lots of NRA instructors (including a dozen or so right here) around.

There's no substitute for starting off right, and learning good habits, instead of bad ones that you'll have to "unlearn" later.

As a carry class instructor, I have to say... you needn't take a carry class right away. See if you enjoy shooting, and think about whether you have an interest in carrying. Then, by all means, if you want to, take the carry class. But lots of recreational pistol shooters don't. Decide what's right for you.

i think starting wth a .22 is a great idea. Five hundred rounds for six bucks is hard to beat, and shooting a target gun is just plain fun. And the low recoil helps build good shooting habits.

If you do decide to take a carry class, don't choose by price. The highest and lowest prices I know of are $175 and $65, and both are taught by absolutely outstanding instructors, Joel Rosenberg and Paul Horvick.

I also know that some not-very-good instructors charge a bundle.

Let me add my voice to the group advocating a .22 pistol. I shoot the heck out of mine.

I am also an ardent admirer of the 1911 and have one on or about my person 24/7. Do I recommend it as a first gun, that is up to you. Go to a range and rent one (or several) and shoot it. You will either love it or not, then make your decision.

.45 ammo is expensive but reloading or sales can bring the per round cost down, that does not mean you will save money rather you will shoot more.

1911's are available in a variety of calibers from a variety of makers, I know that Kimber makes some 9mm's but if you want a 9 go with the Browning Hi Power, it is designed as a 9mm.

Good luck on your decision.

I'll add "I second that" for the Browning HI POWER. Dont let the name get in the way, John Browning had to call it something(P-35). The 1911 and the Hi Power were IMHO the best semi auto military issued pistols of the last century and are still being issued. .22 conversions are available for both and have large collector markets.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_han ... _hi_power/

Probably the 'rational' thing would indeed be a .22 as many suggest. But after seeing the .45 in the movies, and most especially after reading Jeff Cooper's columns in my friend's Guns & Ammo magazines, the M1911 was the only gun I wanted.

But I had heard how some people thought the recoil was unmanageable, so I thought, "What if I actually hate shooting it?". So, not having any friends who owned 1911s in those days, I went to Bill's in Robbinsdale and rented one. I'd shot M16s in the Army, and a semi-auto .22 pistol at a range years before, but I had the guy at the desk show me how to work the 1911 just in case. Fortunately it wasn't busy. He didn't even make fun of me. Anyway I fired one round and knew I'd be buying one. I shot up the box of ammo I'd bought, then spent the rest of the money I had on more ammo.

So after being horrified by the prices of the Kimbers and Colts and such at Bill's, I eventually bought a $395 Charles Daly 1911 clone at Frontiersman. I loved that gun, but I learned that you pretty much get what you pay for -- lots of parts broke, one at time, to where I'd replaced most of the gun after a couple years. (Kind of like my cars, actually.) Eventually I got a Kimber Classic II, at Sportsman's Warehouse, for $630.

As far as the cost of ammo, yeah, when I first got my 1911 I lost 8 pounds in a couple of weeks 'cause I was spending all my beer money on ammo. Lately when I look in the mirror, I'm thinking I should do more shooting.

Over the last year or so I have been in the process of converting to the Church of the Revolver, but that's another whole term paper.

Well, Dean C. is saying some nice things about the Taurus 1911. Lots of features at a really good price.

And that's a very good reason to get a 1911. (It's also the reason that I'm going to, when I can, get together the money for an H&K P7. I really can't argue that it fits an objective niche that can't be filled with something less expensive -- but . . . )