Gentlemen: You failed to explain to chadsci that John Moses Browning, the patron saint of orthodoxy, from the Greek ortho ('right', 'correct') and doxa ('thought', 'teaching', 'glorification'), is typically refered to in the correct worship of M1911’s (.45) and Hi-Powers (9mm). The M1911 and Hi-Power firmly established their position as the Symbol of Faith, otherwise known as the Creed.

Orthodoxy is opposed to heterodoxy (other teaching), heresy (conversion kits) and schism (revolvers). People who deviate from orthodoxy by professing a doctrine considered to be false are most often called heretics, while those who deviate from orthodoxy by removing themselves from the perceived body of believers are called schismatics. Not infrequently these occur together.

Bottom Line: Get a 1911 or a Hi-Power as your first gun,
you will never regret it..

.

Oh. I just assumed everybody knew that already.

I stopped at Cabela's on the way home tonight(I live in St micheal). I wanted to see some 22's. I liked the look of the Walther p22 and the Ruger type 3. The ruger's grip was about a half inch longer than the Walther's. Seemed to fit in my hand better. Both were under $300.

I will going to bills this weekend to try out/rent a few of these. To see how they feel.

Thanks to all of you for the help and check out my new Signature.

is NOT a good first step for most people - just too much recoil for a beginning gun. Plus it sounds like you're on a budget (like I was 35 years ago) and don't handload. Getting in too deep to begin with COULD leave you with a nasty flinch and bad shooting habits for years to come. Start with a 22 or a 9mm and work up.

P.S. - Buy cheap bulk ammo to start with. When you're learning, even shooting Sellier & Beloit or A-MERC is okay. (:{) Well, for YOU it is....

You, sir, are clearly a man of taste and discernment.

I agree, EXCEPT I found the S&B to be perfectly acceptable though kinda dirty as I recall, whereas the A-MERC (American Ammunition Co. of Miami) had visually obvious flaws (like bent edge of the case mouth or NO primer) in a couple of rounds out of maybe a half dozen boxes I bought. Leo Dwyer down in Faribault told me not to bring him any A-MERC brass to reload — he said, "Step on that ****."

Welcome to the forum..... I somehow think that you are going to fit in fine here....

Genesis 19-11


1. In the beginning there was the 1911, and it was good. And behold the Lord
said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and
it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the
designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2. And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements
upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have
malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget
the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the
gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the
1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to
their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and
did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans
didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly
field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts
didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5. And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination
unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need
true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their
enemies in the great battle.

6. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by
man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the
abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the
underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring
forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt
like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the
plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these
plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to
muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst
both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear
safe.

10. But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst
proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger
cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence
which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new
pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they
themselves had committed.

11. And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord
of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend
upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And
there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man
was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his
messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of
the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper
configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as
the prophet had intended.

13. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners
from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil
sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and
who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.

From here:

And yea, the schismatics did chime in with their love of the simple revolver- when they squeezeth their triggers, surely "BANG" did follow. Never did they forget to remove the infernal "safety", for Sam Colt, in his wisdom, did not include such silliness in the revealed design. And it was good.

Five should be the number of the rounds of ammunition, and the number shall be five. Thou shouldst not count four, unless thee proceed immediately to five. Nay, though shouldst not count six or seven, unless thy revolver might hold that many. Eight is right out- in any worthy caliber.

Fifteen is out of the question.

------------------------------------------
Jeremiah
Schismatic in Good Standing
Church of the Appropriate Revolver

John Moses Browning:

Some people say "My boss is a Jewish carpenter".

I say, "My boss is a Mormon gunsmith".

I love 1911's, they were the first big bore handguns I learned to shoot. I shot and carried them in the military and later as a civilian always had several that I loved to shoot. I still have two that I'll never part with.

They're good looking guns, usually reliable and are slim enough to carry well. Let's be realistic though... they are so last century.

They're in the same category as '55 Chevy's, old Corvettes, Harley Davidsons, Rolex watches, etc. Fun to own, play with and admire but for everyday use I'll take a 21st Century .45 like an XD or similar.
(Edited for clarity)
The XD's and other polymer pistols are cheap, durable and work every time. They are a good tool for the purpose of most of the forum members, carry.

Well um.. not always.

I just read my post again, I didn't mean 1911's were cheap, durable and worked every time, I meant the XD's, Glocks, etc. were cheap, durable and worked. (Cheap meaning cost less than a good 1911)

I agree! Chadsci love the sig