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 Could someone please explain the 1911 to me... 
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 Post subject: Could someone please explain the 1911 to me...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Location: Carver, Minnesota
I like to think I'm not real stupid...is the 1911 a generic model...like Kleenex? Seems everybody has a model 1911. What makes it a 1911? If this is a dumb question go ahead and give me a smarta$$ answer.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:25 pm 
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there is honestly a lot to tell.

the 1911 is a style of pistol made by many manufacturers, similar to say an AR can be found by armalite, DPMS, etc...

for the whole story, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

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 Post subject: 1911
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:44 pm 
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The smart a$$ answer is that if you need it explained you'll never understand. Sorry could not help it, as a 1911 nut, I just had to say it.

But honestly, 1911 is a style, and there are alot of variations within that general classification. Barrel lenght denotes a long slide, government, officer, compact, sub compact ect. There are internal and external extractors. Bob tails and dehorned frames, full lenght dust covers, lowered ejection ports, bushing and bull barrels and the list goes on.

It is like someone saying they ride a harley, while that tells you a little it actually makes you need to ask a dozen other questions to really understand what they ride.

I currently have 5 auto's that would fall into the 1911 class and while they visually are have similiarity they as individual as 5 kids from the same parents.


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 Post subject: Re: 1911
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:09 pm 
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mmcnx2 wrote:
The smart a$$ answer is that if you need it explained you'll never understand. Sorry could not help it, as a 1911 nut, I just had to say it.

But honestly, 1911 is a style, and there are alot of variations within that general classification. Barrel lenght denotes a long slide, government, officer, compact, sub compact ect. There are internal and external extractors. Bob tails and dehorned frames, full lenght dust covers, lowered ejection ports, bushing and bull barrels and the list goes on.

It is like someone saying they ride a harley, while that tells you a little it actually makes you need to ask a dozen other questions to really understand what they ride.

I currently have 5 auto's that would fall into the 1911 class and while they visually are have similiarity they as individual as 5 kids from the same parents.



[smart ass remark]

I ride a Harley 8)

[/smart ass remark/]

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:14 am 
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A 1911 is a Colt's. anything else is a clone....... sorry but the truth had to be told....

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:39 am 
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1911fan wrote:
A 1911 is a Colt's. anything else is a clone....... sorry but the truth had to be told....


Amen Brother.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:32 am 
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http://www.frfrogspad.com/jmb.htm

The Gospel According To John (Moses Browning)

John Moses Browning was perhaps the finest firearms designer, ever. His designs continue to work and to serve almost 100 years after they were created. There is an ongoing controversy about the reliability and safety of current 1911s vs. other "modern" pistols and I think this about sums the situation up.

Quote:
1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.

a Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

b or Hell

© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

For the faithful, the "feast day" of St. John Moses Browning is January 23.

While the above was intended to be (slightly) humorous it really is the truth...

More at above web page


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:39 am 
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Lets see, so sum up the major points huh?

1. The true 1911 has been around since the year 1911, no major updates, no re-designs. The thing is a tank. It served in WWII as the standard issue sidearm. Therefore anyone from around that generation swears by them. Anyone who respects history should also find confidence in them as they have likely been used successfully in a fight for someones life, much more than any other modern firearm. They have proven themselves over time.

2. Try to imagine Superman in the Shot Put event, using a bowling ball, and it hits you dead in the chest. That is about the equivalent knock down power of the .45 acp round. Slow velocity, big round bullet. (Sort of like that saying in the world of cars, "There is no substitute for cubic inches")

Meaning some people argue 9mm and .40 are better because they fly faster or penetrate deeper. Well, buy some + P ammo for your .45 and you practically have their velocity, plus a bigger bullet.

3. A 1911 has a thumb safety, grip safety, and is designed so you carry a round in the chamber, with the hammer cocked, and it is ready to be used in defense simply by grabbing the gun naturally, dropping the thumb safety, and then you are ready to fire. It is a very instinctive design, that is hard to screw up when emotions are running high.


That is my version of a 1911 summary. If I didn't just buy a house, I would have spent some of that money on my very own 1911. But as a distant substitute I own a Glock 21. Blasphemy in the world of the 1911. But my collection is still in it's infancy.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:14 am 
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(Sort of like that saying in the world of cars, "There is no substitute for cubic inches")

You mean "There is no replacement for displacement."

All the above having been said, the 1911-style pistols aren't for everyone. If carried for personal protection, one simply must remember the safety. It goes Off when the pistol comes out of the holster. It stays off until the pistol goes back in the holster.

Transition from a Glock or other DA pistol can cause one to forget about the thumb safety, resulting in bad things happening in a defensive situation. I have only single-action semi-autos in my "collection"; Browning Hi-Powers and a (only one, thus far) Kimber.

The 1911 is said to be difficult to conceal. Bah! Say I. It's thin, and the grip is smaller than many other pistols, especially Glocks and many Sig models. The standard barrel is 5 inches; it, too, is easy, as the barrel is the least bothersome to conceal.

jb

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:23 am 
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The 1911 was the first pistol I fired that was larger than a .22 LR. My introduction to it was in the military in the 1950's where I learned to use one and had to carry one on many occasions.

The ones we used were not pristine examples, most were beat up with much of the finish worn off but they always worked.

You might think that I probably carry one today but I don't. I carry those polymer things that some 1911 users sneer at. I own some 1911's and have carried them but I prefer the ones that you just point and shoot for self defense.

Several reasons why: weight, capacity, ease of field stripping, no safety to work in a panic situation and if I ever have to defend myself, one of my nice 1911's won't be sitting in a police evidence locker.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:36 pm 
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I've always wondered what JMB would come up with given modern technology, materials, and design methods.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:44 pm 
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Maybe 2011A1, select fire; full auto capable :shock: 8) :D

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 Post subject: 2011
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:54 pm 
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Now that you mention it there are folks that call high capacity 1911's; 2011's. Such as the Para's 16/40.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:23 pm 
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It is a little-known fact that a 1911A1, loaded with 230gr. JHP is the only thing in the universe that Chuck Norris is afraid of.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:15 am 
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bensdad wrote:
It is a little-known fact that a 1911A1, loaded with 230gr. JHP is the only thing in the universe that Chuck Norris is afraid of.

:lol:


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