Now here's a real shocker!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:07 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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Lenny7 wrote: mrokern wrote: You don't get Social Security and Medicare taxes back. True, but the point remains...this is further evidence that 95% of Americans are not getting a tax cut. When I think of getting a income taxes refund, I don't consider it to be related to SS and Medicare. They ARE taxes on your income, but with no means for a refund, I consider them a separate type of tax.
I would agree. We also should make sure that we don't consider anyone who gets a refund to be in that 40% (after all, you only get a refund of what you've overpaid, not what you've paid).
That said, again, I agree with your sentiments about the plan. I want spending decreased, not taxes increased.
Maybe if we stopped funding SWAT teams in every suburb...
-Mark
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:24 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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mrokern wrote: That number does not include payroll withholding. Even if you don't make enough to have to file, you still have paid in withholding. You don't get Social Security and Medicare taxes back.
No, you get Social Security and Medicare benefits. Which for folks at the low end of the income scale already exceed what they pay in.
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:28 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Dick Unger wrote: As far as I know, 95% of people just got a tax CUT.
A tax cut without an accompanying spending cut is useless. All you're doing is saving a little on the front end, to pay a lot more on the back end. And yeah, both parties are guilty of this.
Borrowing a lot of money to give me a slight tax cut actually make the problem worse.
Borrowing money makes sense in certain circumstances, but to pay for operating expenses or ongoing expenses it does not.
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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Moby Clarke
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:41 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:09 pm Posts: 965 Location: North Minneapolis
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How about scapping the whole tax system and going with a consumption tax. If I want to buy something, I get taxed. If I don't buy stuff I don't get taxed. That way, everyone pays the same amount for taxes. As it is now, a little more than 15% pays 70+% of the tax. That is not right, regardless of your political stripes.
_________________ It is about Liberty!
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Chris
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JonnyB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:42 pm |
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:43 am Posts: 273 Location: Central Minnesota
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What we in the 95% got was a reduction in the tax withholding, not a tax cut. We'll just owe more next April 15th.
jb
_________________ There are things that you cannot imagine, but there is nothing that may not happen.
John Farnam (I believe)
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Moby Clarke wrote: How about scapping the whole tax system and going with a consumption tax. If I want to buy something, I get taxed. If I don't buy stuff I don't get taxed. That way, everyone pays the same amount for taxes. As it is now, a little more than 15% pays 70+% of the tax. That is not right, regardless of your political stripes.
In theory I agree with you. But in practice it gets a lot more difficult but then doesn't everything! If you're only taxing consumption you create a terrific incentive for black markets to avoid taxation.
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:12 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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jdege wrote: mrokern wrote: That number does not include payroll withholding. Even if you don't make enough to have to file, you still have paid in withholding. You don't get Social Security and Medicare taxes back. No, you get Social Security and Medicare benefits. Which for folks at the low end of the income scale already exceed what they pay in.
I'm 32 years old. Want to place a bet if I'll ever see a dime of that money back in any fashion?
-Mark
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jaysong
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:14 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:09 am Posts: 983 Location: Brewster
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kecker wrote: Dick Unger wrote: As far as I know, 95% of people just got a tax CUT. A tax cut without an accompanying spending cut is useless. All you're doing is saving a little on the front end, to pay a lot more on the back end. And yeah, both parties are guilty of this. Borrowing a lot of money to give me a slight tax cut actually make the problem worse. Borrowing money makes sense in certain circumstances, but to pay for operating expenses or ongoing expenses it does not.
Why can't people understand that when taxes are too high (like now) and you cut them revenue to the gov. gos up. Taxes cuts pay for themselves.
_________________ Professional Firearms Training. LLC.
http://www.mngunclass.com
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:52 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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jaysong wrote: Why can't people understand that when taxes are too high (like now) and you cut them revenue to the gov. gos up. Taxes cuts pay for themselves.
Because it's not about paying for government, it's about increasing the power and influence of politicians.
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