Dakota Co. taking longer than 30 days
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havegunjoe
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:08 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:32 am Posts: 515 Location: Metro Area - Apple Valley
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joelr wrote: hypertech wrote: Sure, but by the time your case got anywhere, you'd probably have the permit and then what injury/remedy would you seek? Costs, including attorneys fees. I'm not in a position to spend anybody else's money, but I'd purely love to see somebody give the sort of instruction to some of the dilatory sheriffs similar to the one that David Gross and James Evenson did for Bruce Andersohn, the Anoka County Sheriff, back in 2003 over his particular flavor of arrogance.
That was sooooooooooo nice to read. It’s nice to have David Gross on our side and to have fellow permit holders like James Evenson who are willing to take it the extra step when needed.
_________________ DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:25 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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havegunjoe wrote: That was sooooooooooo nice to read. . :) Thank you. You can imagine how much fun it was to write. (David and I were talking about it the other week, and, initially, we both had forgotten that I'd written it up and published it.)
_________________ Just a guy.
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hypertech
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:49 am |
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Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:40 pm Posts: 363
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joelr wrote: hypertech wrote: Sure, but by the time your case got anywhere, you'd probably have the permit and then what injury/remedy would you seek? Costs, including attorneys fees. I'm not in a position to spend anybody else's money, but I'd purely love to see somebody give the sort of instruction to some of the dilatory sheriffs similar to the one that David Gross and James Evenson did for Bruce Andersohn, the Anoka County Sheriff, back in 2003 over his particular flavor of arrogance.
Right, but then you would have to have someone willing to pay all the money to file the case and then continue paying money to pursue it despite that they already have their permit.
Their only benefit would be to receive back the costs they are spending to get them back. Plus, if you win it just comes out of the funds collected for permits and the county won't have to work as hard to cook its books to show a loss on processing permits. I doubt it would change any behavior.
I believe there is also a doctrine of some sort requiring you to mitigate your damages. I'm not sure how that works with regard to continuing a suit to get the costs for the suit. Would your damages be limited to the costs sustained up to the point the permit was issued? If you have an anti-2nd judge, could they do that to you?
Really what you need is a pissed off attorney willing to do it for low fees just to get the judgment to waive around that the county is screwing people.
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SultanOfBrunei
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm Posts: 1743 Location: Lakeville
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I'd like to see them pressed on their reluctance to issue permits in accordance with the law.
I would also like to see someone arrested for carrying with an overdue receipt from the sheriff as their permit.
I WOULDN'T like to see someone get assaulted/killed because they weren't able to carry due to the sheriff's negligence.
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Ramoel
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:05 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:52 pm Posts: 826 Location: MN
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I lost patience yesterday and sent the Dakota County Sheriff an email asking him what date they had mailed my permit. I mentioned that it was 40 days since I had applied and I knew the law only allowed 30 days so I was concerned that it was lost in the mail.
No reply and no permit today, day 41
_________________ Ron
NRA Life Member
USS Bristol DD857
_________________________
If life was fair, Robins couldn't eat worms...
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:10 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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hypertech wrote: joelr wrote: hypertech wrote: Sure, but by the time your case got anywhere, you'd probably have the permit and then what injury/remedy would you seek? Costs, including attorneys fees. I'm not in a position to spend anybody else's money, but I'd purely love to see somebody give the sort of instruction to some of the dilatory sheriffs similar to the one that David Gross and James Evenson did for Bruce Andersohn, the Anoka County Sheriff, back in 2003 over his particular flavor of arrogance. Right, but then you would have to have someone willing to pay all the money to file the case and then continue paying money to pursue it despite that they already have their permit. Their only benefit would be to receive back the costs they are spending to get them back. Plus, if you win it just comes out of the funds collected for permits and the county won't have to work as hard to cook its books to show a loss on processing permits. I doubt it would change any behavior. I believe there is also a doctrine of some sort requiring you to mitigate your damages. I'm not sure how that works with regard to continuing a suit to get the costs for the suit. Would your damages be limited to the costs sustained up to the point the permit was issued? If you have an anti-2nd judge, could they do that to you? Really what you need is a pissed off attorney willing to do it for low fees just to get the judgment to waive around that the county is screwing people. There's lots and lots and lots of available pro bono (or cheap) work for attorneys wanting to do Good Stuff.
_________________ Just a guy.
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Lawyer_in_Training
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:20 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:22 pm Posts: 339 Location: Suburban Twin Cities, MN
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hypertech wrote: I believe there is also a doctrine of some sort requiring you to mitigate your damages. There is, but I'm pretty sure that only applies in contract issues. (ie. a landlord has to try to find a new renter if the current renter abandons the property and stops paying rent.) hypertech wrote: I'm not sure how that works with regard to continuing a suit to get the costs for the suit. Would your damages be limited to the costs sustained up to the point the permit was issued? If you have an anti-2nd judge, could they do that to you? Damages, costs, and attorney's fees are all separate issues. Here the damage is you didn't get your permit and the gov't isn't following the law. Kind of hard to put a price on that... Costs are typically the fixed filing fees, etc. Attorney's fees depend on the statute you're suing under or the discretion of the judge depending on the nature of the case. hypertech wrote: Really what you need is a pissed off attorney willing to do it for low fees just to get the judgment to waive around that the county is screwing people.
They do exist, but after a while they get hungry and the law school loans come due...
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Ramoel
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:44 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:52 pm Posts: 826 Location: MN
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I got my permit in the mail today, 42 days. I have to have it reprinted because the expiration date says #Error. Sheesh!!!
They also answered my email. Here is the response and the email I sent.
Mr. Ramoel,
You permit was mailed yesterday. I apoliogize for the late response. Permit applications are running 2 1/2 to 3 times the number we have expierenced in years past. We have recently completed training a second staff person to help keep up with the demand brought about by the renewals.
Steve Theriault
Captian/Patrol Division
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 5:31 PM
To: Sheriff
Subject: Carry Permit
Dear Sheriff Gudmundson:
I submitted my renewal application for a permit to carry a firearm to your office on May 29, 2008.
As of today, I have not received the renewed permit. My understanding of the law is I should have received it about 10 days ago. In 2003 I received my permit in 14 days. I can't believe after 5 years your ability to process permits is slower than it was in the beginning so I expect there may have been some other reason for the delay.
I'm concerned that it may have been lost in the mail. Would you please inform me of the date it was mailed?
Thank You,
Ramoel
XXXXXXX
XXXXXX, MN
_________________ Ron
NRA Life Member
USS Bristol DD857
_________________________
If life was fair, Robins couldn't eat worms...
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:55 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Ramoel wrote: Mr. Ramoel,
You permit was mailed yesterday. I apoliogize for the late response. Permit applications are running 2 1/2 to 3 times the number we have expierenced in years past....
Steve Theriault Captian/Patrol Division
Hey, Steve? You left out the part about how, given that it's five years after the first flurry of permits, the renewal levels have been predictable for, oh, five years, and how it was irresponsible for you folks to be, oh, five years behind the curve.
Happy to help.
_________________ Just a guy.
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SultanOfBrunei
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:43 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm Posts: 1743 Location: Lakeville
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My wife's permit came in yesterday, 40 days.
Pretty sad state of affairs, if you ask me.
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ree
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:55 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:55 pm Posts: 742 Location: Twin Cities
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SultanOfBrunei wrote: My wife's permit came in yesterday, 40 days. Cogratulate her. Gotta love more female permit holders. Quote: Pretty sad state of affairs, if you ask me.
+1
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:18 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Today is day 31 for me...time to send an email to his highness and see what excuse I'll be offered.
[shakes magic 8-Ball]
"Please Try Again"
Stupid 8-Ball.....
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:35 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Julie Fischer just called me, my permit went down to the mailroom today (Day 32).
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Ramoel
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:35 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:52 pm Posts: 826 Location: MN
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I spoke to Julie yesterday to see about getting my re-printed renewal permit. The expiration date said #error. She said it was on the Sheriff's desk awaiting his signature so hopefully mine was mailed today too.
_________________ Ron
NRA Life Member
USS Bristol DD857
_________________________
If life was fair, Robins couldn't eat worms...
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:38 pm |
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1911 tainted |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
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Ramoel wrote: I spoke to Julie yesterday to see about getting my re-printed renewal permit. The expiration date said #error. She said it was on the Sheriff's desk awaiting his signature so hopefully mine was mailed today too.
The sheriff was signing what?
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