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This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
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[ 14 posts ] |
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DeanC
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Post subject: TX: Wrong Address Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:28 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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Quote: Police Get The Wrong House In Galveston, Allegedly Assault 12-Year-Old GirlWed Dec 17, 2008 at 12:37:01 PM It was a little before 8 at night when the breaker went out at Emily Milburn's home in Galveston. She was busy preparing her children for school the next day, so she asked her 12-year-old daughter, Dymond, to pop outside and turn the switch back on. As Dymond headed toward the breaker, a blue van drove up and three men jumped out rushing toward her. One of them grabbed her saying, "You're a prostitute. You're coming with me." Dymond grabbed onto a tree and started screaming, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy." One of the men covered her mouth. Two of the men beat her about the face and throat. As it turned out, the three men were plain-clothed Galveston police officers who had been called to the area regarding three white prostitutes soliciting a white man and a black drug dealer. All this is according to a lawsuit filed in Galveston federal court by Milburn against the officers. The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was wearing, despite not fitting the racial description of any of the female suspects. The police went to the wrong house, two blocks away from the area of the reported illegal activity, Milburn's attorney, Anthony Griffin, tells Hair Balls. After the incident, Dymond was hospitalized and suffered black eyes as well as throat and ear drum injuries. Three weeks later, according to the lawsuit, police went to Dymond's school, where she was an honor student, and arrested her for assaulting a public servant. Griffin says the allegations stem from when Dymond fought back against the three men who were trying to take her from her home. The case went to trial, but the judge declared it a mistrial on the first day, says Griffin. The new trial is set for February. "I think we'll be okay," says Griffin. "I don't think a jury will find a 12-year-old girl guilty who's just sitting outside her house. Any 12-year-old attacked by three men and told that she's a prostitute is going to scream and yell for Daddy and hit back and do whatever she can. She's scared to death." Since the incident more than two years ago, Dymond regularly suffers nightmares in which police officers are raping and beating her and cutting off her fingers, according to the lawsuit. Griffin says he expects to enter mediation with the officers in early 2009 to resolve the lawsuit. We've got calls in to the officers' lawyer; we'll let you know if we hear something. Update: This is from the officers' lawyer, William Helfand: Both the daughter and the father were arrested for assaulting a peace officer. "The father basically attacked police officers as they were trying to take the daughter into custody after she ran off." Also, "The city has investigated the matter and found that the conduct of the police officers was appropriate under the circumstances," Helfand says. "It's unfortunate that sometimes police officers have to use force against people who are using force against them. And the evidence will show that both these folks violated the law and forcefully resisted arrest." -- Chris Vogel
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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MNXD9
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:22 pm |
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:48 am Posts: 232
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Wow I can't imagine what would happen if three guys jumped out of a van and grabbed my daughter....
And the icing on the cake....
Quote: Both the daughter and the father were arrested for assaulting a peace officer. "The father basically attacked police officers as they were trying to take the daughter into custody after she ran off."
Also, "The city has investigated the matter and found that the conduct of the police officers was appropriate under the circumstances," Helfand says. "It's unfortunate that sometimes police officers have to use force against people who are using force against them. And the evidence will show that both these folks violated the law and forcefully resisted arrest."
One can only hope they not only lose the case against the father and child, but several people lose their jobs, including the attorney that charged them.
Wow...
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Carbide Insert
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:47 am |
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Poet Laureate |
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am Posts: 760 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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_________________ It's not always easy these days to tell which of our two major political parties is the Stupid Party and which is the Evil Party...
But it remains true that from time to time they collaborate on something that's both stupid and evil and call it bipartisanship. -Thomas E. Woods Jr.
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lance22
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:44 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 am Posts: 817 Location: Eagan, MN
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This it one of the most outrageous stories I've heard in a long time. Three weeks after the fact of their assaulting her, they went to her school and arrested her for assaulting them?
Her and her family will hate police for the rest of their lives, and it's a sad commentary on that city. Good thing the courts threw it out.
I agree - If I stepped out of my house and saw three men trying to pull my daughter into a van, the story would have read quite differently. Now, if it were an OBVIOUS police operation it would be a different matter, but you have a plain-clothes take down into a non-descript van you are just begging for something bad to happen.
_________________ Clinging to guns and religion.
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bkrafft
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:05 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 pm Posts: 571
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Quote: Dymond grabbed onto a tree and started screaming, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy." One of the men covered her mouth. Two of the men beat her about the face and throat. lance22 wrote: I agree - If I stepped out of my house and saw three men trying to pull my daughter into a van, the story would have read quite differently. Now, if it were an OBVIOUS police operation it would be a different matter, but you have a plain-clothes take down into a non-descript van you are just begging for something bad to happen.
Okay given the situation as described, three men beating on a 12 year old girl and trying to drag her into a van, I can't see any way that this does not fit Minnesota's criteria for using deadly force.
1) Reluctant participant: the girl had just stepped out of the house a few moments before and was hanging on to a tree screaming for help.
2) Retreat is not an option: fairly obvious, I think.
3) Immediate danger of death or GBH: Hmmm, I think three grown men beating a 12 year old girl satisfies that condition.
4) No lesser force will do: This one might be a little tricky. Are you required to yell STOP before opening fire? Or can you safely assume that allowing three grown men beating a little girl time to get in one or two more shots (remembering that a single blow to the throat can kill) would be a bad thing.
Thoughts? Comments? Lawerly caveats?
_________________ If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown
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EJSG19
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:33 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:44 pm Posts: 599
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3 guys in plain clothes. Beating a 12 year old daughter and dragging into a van.
How does that not look like kidnapping, attempted rape, etc to the average person?
Doesn't sound like any badges were shown, or identifying done the way the story reads.
Father should have had them at gunpoint, if they refuse to release the daughter then the situation rapidly escalates. Daughter stays safe for the time being, father eventually goes to jail and daughter likely goes downtown anyway. I'd prefer this situation hands down. I'd see their badges, and guns on the ground until they convince me otherwise and take my chances if it were my daughter.
I don't see a better outcome. Police think what they think, and a daddy with a gun won't change that. Dad might get shot, police might/should get shot since they're in the wrong, but it won't look good for the father if he shoots a cop.
I don't buy that a grown man can't overpower a 12 year old girl grabbing onto a tree, therefore making it necessary to beat her into submission.
"City finds their action appropriate"??? Necessary for police to use force against people using force against them? The police started it!!! Father should be commended for restraining himself and not going on a personal vendetta in the aftermath of the event.
_________________ EJSG19
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Sure. You and I weren't there, and we don't know what really happened, but here's it's a safe bet that the cops are going to testify (truthfully? I dunno) that not only did they have their badges visible (hanging from chains around their necks or on their belts) and that they repeatedly identified themselves as police officers, to both the daughter and the father -- and the mother, for that matter.
If it ever gets to court. If they don't beat the father and daughter in the criminal case, my strong guess is that they'll delay as long as they can and settle the case.
_________________ Just a guy.
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Faust
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:44 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 4:23 pm Posts: 30 Location: Maple Grove, MN
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Too many things don't make sense regarding the officers conduct. Arresting a prostitute in an unmarked van, plain clothes, and not identifying themselves; it almost seems as if they didn't want anyone to know they were cops. This implies to me that they may have different motives than enforcing prostitution laws.
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bc2007
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Post subject: Re: TX: Wrong Address Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:21 am |
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 11:05 am Posts: 40 Location: Scott County
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DeanC wrote: Quote: Police Get The Wrong House In Galveston, Allegedly Assault 12-Year-Old GirlWed Dec 17, 2008 at 12:37:01 PM All this is according to a lawsuit filed in Galveston federal court by Milburn against the officers. The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was wearing, despite not fitting the racial description of any of the female suspects. The police went to the wrong house, two blocks away from the area of the reported illegal activity, Milburn's attorney, Anthony Griffin, tells Hair Balls. -- Chris Vogel
In my fire/ems career, I made the news often, even national. In my legal career, I've made a couple statements to reporters. My biggest regret is never making any comments to Hair Balls.
Sorry. I couldn't help it.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:22 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Faust wrote: Too many things don't make sense regarding the officers conduct. Arresting a prostitute in an unmarked van, plain clothes, and not identifying themselves; it almost seems as if they didn't want anyone to know they were cops. This implies to me that they may have different motives than enforcing prostitution laws. There, I disagree -- on most of it. If they roll up in a marked van and leap out in uniform, there is the possibility that rather than an easy arrest, they get an unsuccessful foot pursuit.
In case anybody's in doubt, I'm not exactly supporting the Bad Cop Stuff, or the bad cops here. But, if they're going to get involved in a surprise warrant service, keeping a certain amount of anonymity until the last moment makes sense to me.
_________________ Just a guy.
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Macx
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:18 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Whittier
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I don't believe that self defense employed by targets against unmarked officers should be allowed to be prosecuted with the sentencing/crime enhancements associated with Quote: assaulting a public servant If the D.A. wants to be a prick, simple assault would do . . .. unmarked situations should always be handled with the officers cognoscente that the scarier they are, the more likely people are going to react in self defense. Expecting people to go limp when they think they are about to get gang raped and murdered or think that is about to happen to their daughter. . . expecting and even prosecuting if people don't go against every fiber of human nature is just wrong. Too often they take the uber bully tac, knowing that any resistance can be used as a chargable offense & they provoke it so they can use it in plea agreements and as a threat to extort information (a practice the Khang's and I learned painfully about just before last Christmas). This stuff really, really needs to stop.
_________________ Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438
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Binky .357
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:35 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 3:02 am Posts: 816 Location: South of the River Suburbs
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joelr wrote: If it ever gets to court. If they don't beat the father and daughter <strike>in the criminal case</strike>, my strong guess is that they'll delay as long as they can and settle the case.
That brings up an interesting question... has anyone ever told the police to stuff their settlement and go for the brass ring (an admission of police guilt)? I myself (IANAL) would think that a offer of a settlement would be pretty strong prima facie evicence that the cops feel there is some culpability of their boys in blue, and maybe the system as a whole...
_________________ My YouTube Videos
"We're either gonna be the best of friends or there's gonna be a whole lotta shootin' goin' on."
"I think it's a good thing for serving cops to mix with non-cops in a situation where they understand that they aren't in charge." -JoelR
"You'd be amazed at the things a bullet can stop." -Old Irish Proverb
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PocketProtector642
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:20 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am Posts: 702 Location: St. Paulish
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MNXD9 wrote: And the icing on the cake.... Quote: Both the daughter and the father were arrested for assaulting a peace officer. "The father basically attacked police officers as they were trying to take the daughter into custody after she ran off."
Also, "The city has investigated the matter and found that the conduct of the police officers was appropriate under the circumstances," Helfand says. "It's unfortunate that sometimes police officers have to use force against people who are using force against them. And the evidence will show that both these folks violated the law and forcefully resisted arrest." One can only hope they not only lose the case against the father and child, but several people lose their jobs, including the attorney that charged them. Wow...
+1. The sad thing is in their minds they didnt do anything wrong. It will happen again.
_________________ Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters. "If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14) "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)
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Mattxd
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Post subject: Re: TX: Wrong Address Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:38 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:36 pm Posts: 129 Location: Elk River
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Quote: .... As Dymond headed toward the breaker, a blue van drove up and three men jumped out rushing toward her. One of them grabbed her saying, "You're a prostitute. You're coming with me."
Dymond grabbed onto a tree and started screaming, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy." One of the men covered her mouth. Two of the men beat her about the face and throat.
As it turned out, the three men were plain-clothed Galveston police officers who had been called to the area regarding three white prostitutes soliciting a white man and a black drug dealer.
.......
"I think we'll be okay," says Griffin. "I don't think a jury will find a 12-year-old girl guilty who's just sitting outside her house. Any 12-year-old attacked by three men and told that she's a prostitute is going to scream and yell for Daddy and hit back and do whatever she can. She's scared to death." ....
I would love to be on either jury. unless the thugs we in regular uniform and in a crown vic with lights flashing, I couldn't find fault with any reaction of the girl or the father by ANY means available. I don't think it reasonable to expect for the either the father or the daughter to be able to spot a badge, read a t-shirt or take their assailants word that they are a cop during what they believe to be an abduction. These thugs are luck they still alive.
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[ 14 posts ] |
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