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joelr
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Post subject: BCA Report Out Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:22 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:29 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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How much documentation do you want? Just obvious BS?
Ramsey County
Permit Application Fees $88,100.00
Reissue/change $1,690.00
Renew Permits $3,280.00
Renewal Permits late app fee $620.00
Total $93,690.00
Dept. of Public Safety Fees $12,110.00
Salaries-Labor-Wages $168,611.56
Benefits-Soc. Security & Medicare $70,726.07
Equipment Expendable $0.00
Office Materials & Supplies $1,281.53
Postage $597.46
Phone Service/Fax Fees $500.50
Office Machines $15,844.06
Printing-Copying Fees $345.00
Total: $270,016.18
Total:($176,326.18 )
RAMSEY
Applications:1566
Issued(5yr): 1400
Denied:119
Emergency: 19
On hold:3
Canceled:1
pending: 24
The top number say fewer than 1000 permits, the bottom says 1400 issued.
The bottom numbers say Ramsey made quite a bit more than $93k.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
Last edited by princewally on Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fyrwys
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:33 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:03 am Posts: 118 Location: South Metro
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Oh... documented lie. I was looking for an error. Page 2, Issued - 5 year is missing a digit--presumably a 7 (20,783 rather than 20,83) if the other numbers/math are correct. What does that get me?
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:35 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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I just updated my initial post with Ramsey County Contradictions.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:38 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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Wow, Ramsey's charging an average of only $63.15 per permit, if you lump renewals and new permits together. That's nice of them, especially since they have almost $170k in straight wage outlays and $70k in benefits to get the permits out.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:51 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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Out of Ramsey's denials 11 were "danger to self or others", 1 was "did not appeal yet, couldn't go to denied from void status", all of the rest were "other reasons".
What's wrong Ramsey, couldn't invent a valid excuse to deny over a hundred times?
Looks like more than half of the blatantly invented denials are tossed on appeal.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:53 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Quibble: Ramsey says 12100 to BCA but BCA says 12025 from Ramsey (Probably timing or categorization of reports but still ...)
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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Mosin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:54 pm |
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Eagle-eyed watcher of legislation |
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:34 pm Posts: 185 Location: Bloomington
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Its not a lie but its funny seeing that people were denied for being under 21. They might want to get their money back if the instructor didn't explain that one.
_________________ April 19, 1775 the strongest military in the world attacked farmers and townspeople formed as militia in Concord. One year, 3 months, and 25,000 american casualties later, we would begin forming a government based on limited powers and individual liberties.
It's your constitution. They died for it. Read it. Know it.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution ... rview.html
http://LibertyMinnesota.com
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:54 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Look at the wages with Benefits ... Ramsey is ~$230K for manpower. For their number of applications, they're SPENDING way too much.
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:59 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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162 crimes out of 56919 permit holders? That's a 0.28461497918094133769040215042429% crime rate! Think of the children!
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:00 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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princewally wrote: Out of Ramsey's denials 11 were "danger to self or others", 1 was "did not appeal yet, couldn't go to denied from void status", all of the rest were "other reasons".
What's wrong Ramsey, couldn't invent a valid excuse to deny over a hundred times?
Looks like more than half of the blatantly invented denials are tossed on appeal. Yup. And I've reason to believe that of the half that are not tossed, at least some of the fault lies with the instructor for not explaining how to handle a denial letter or "routine" inquiry from a deputy.
I got a call from what I'm guessing is going to be just such a guy today; after being "helpful" to the deputy and getting denied again, he finally figured out that he'd been put behind the curve by his instructor, and called me to ask what to do. (I pointed him at an attorney, but my guess is that he's screwed.)
_________________ Just a guy.
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Scott Hughes
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:27 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
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princewally wrote: 162 crimes out of 56919 permit holders? That's a 0.28461497918094133769040215042429% crime rate! Think of the children!
I haven't had time to drill into any of this but I'm curious with regard to the point princewally mentions; how many of the 162 were violent crimes. My guess is I'm going to find out that it's a super small number.
_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
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realtor_packing_heat
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:28 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:32 pm Posts: 180 Location: St. Paul
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plblark wrote: Look at the wages with Benefits ... Ramsey is ~$230K for manpower. For their number of applications, they're SPENDING way too much.
How do I get one of those high paying denial jobs? Maybe Fletcher needs to learn how to be more efficient - 172.42 an application and 15k for "office machines". What a joke!
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BigBlue
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:55 am Posts: 151
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Wow, the counties that don't like issuing permits sure know how to lump every possible pseudo-related cost they can find into the 'expenditures' section, eh? As someone else above said, they are spending too much.
BB
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:36 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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Scott Hughes wrote: princewally wrote: 162 crimes out of 56919 permit holders? That's a 0.28461497918094133769040215042429% crime rate! Think of the children! I haven't had time to drill into any of this but I'm curious with regard to the point princewally mentions; how many of the 162 were violent crimes. My guess is I'm going to find out that it's a super small number.
40 by my count. It's on page 264.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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