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 Post subject: Today's Top Stories
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:42 pm 
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While world leaders are battling over new world currencies, financial architecture, and more stimulus packages at the G20 Summit on the Global Economy, protesters are comming out in full force against the growth of against unchecked capitalism, war, and destruction of the environment.

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In other news, Obama's iPod gift includes 40 Broadway show tunes!

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 Post subject: Re: Today's Top Stories
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:53 am 
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PocketProtector642 wrote:
protesters are comming out in full force against the growth of against unchecked capitalism, war, and destruction of the environment.


Where is capitalism growing unchecked? It sure isn't in the USA. Quite the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's Top Stories
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:19 am 
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Lenny7 wrote:
Where is capitalism growing unchecked? It sure isn't in the USA. Quite the opposite.

Exactly -- the fat cats have managed to cloak the current corrupt corporate-welfare regime in the guise of capitalism, so that any criticism of it is automatically "communist".


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 Post subject: Re: Today's Top Stories
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:02 am 
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Pat Cannon wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
Where is capitalism growing unchecked? It sure isn't in the USA. Quite the opposite.

Exactly -- the fat cats have managed to cloak the current corrupt corporate-welfare regime in the guise of capitalism, so that any criticism of it is automatically "communist".


+1

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:48 pm 
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I can't speak directly for the G20 protesters but historically the message of the J18/seattle WTO/G8/etc protesters has been that of anti-globalization. Mainly, that the developed countries (particularly the US) continue to exploit developing nations by establishing multi-national corporations operating where economic conditions, labor laws, and environmental standards are weak.

With this definition of "unchecked capitalism", yes, capitalism does continue to grow unchecked here in the US. With our own economy in the tank, you can bet companies will be looking for any way shave costs, and the poorer nations _will_ be exploited.

Another example of unchecked capitalism was the relaxation of lending standards and questionable banking practices (sub-prime loans, mortgage backed securities, derivatives) that lead to the current banking crisis. The bailout, or "socialization of America", or whatever you want to call it, is simply a response to that unchecked capitalism. Now don't get me wrong, I despise the wall-street bailout. The lack of provisions attached to the wall-street bailout was sickening. However, let's not forget that there was an electronic run on the banks that nearly destroyed our economy. Something needed to be done quickly so congress drafted a bill and Bush signed it.

Any talk of
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the current corrupt corporate-welfare regime
(presumably meaning Obama and the Dem congress) is an unfair characterization. I truly believe that the situation would have played out the same regardless of what party was in control of the legislative and executive branches.

In the case of the banking crisis, the "free market" failed. Both Reps and Dems allowed this to happen. Anyone who believes that the "socialization of america" is purely a result of Obama's administration needs to turn off the conservative talk radio for a brief moment every day and start thinking for themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:26 am 
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wheatstraw wrote:
Mainly, that the developed countries (particularly the US) continue to exploit developing nations by establishing multi-national corporations operating where economic conditions, labor laws, and environmental standards are weak.


Yeah, it's just terrible when these multi nationals come into a poor country, build factories, and provide jobs for the locals.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:36 am 
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wheatstraw wrote:
Another example of unchecked capitalism was the relaxation of lending standards and questionable banking practices (sub-prime loans, mortgage backed securities, derivatives) that lead to the current banking crisis. The bailout, or "socialization of America", or whatever you want to call it, is simply a response to that unchecked capitalism.


By "unchecked capitalism" you mean when the government comes in and says "give loans to the poor segment of your territory so they can get houses or we'll pull your license", right?

That's like the definition of deregulation: "We're removing 1% of the regulations, to give us better control, so ignore the 30% increase in new regulations so we can call it 'deregulation'.

The last hundred years have been almost constant additions to regulation and 'checks' on capitalism. Blaming the current situation on circumstances we haven't seen in almost a century is silly.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:12 am 
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Lenny7 wrote:
wheatstraw wrote:
Mainly, that the developed countries (particularly the US) continue to exploit developing nations by establishing multi-national corporations operating where economic conditions, labor laws, and environmental standards are weak.


Yeah, it's just terrible when these multi nationals come into a poor country, build factories, and provide jobs for the locals.


If they are building sweatshops? Yeah, it is. Not because they are breaking laws (they usually aren't), but because it's not fucking ethical or moral.

Same reason I try not to go to Walmart if at all possible. Saving 25 cents isn't worth it to me to support a company that treats workers like shit. And no, it's got nothing to do with unions...I'm no friend of unions myself...it's about doing right by other people.

You can't avoid all of it...there are things that Target just doesn't carry, but just as I try not to support anti-gun businesses more than necessary, I try not to support unethical businesses either.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:19 am 
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wheatstraw wrote:
Anyone who believes that the "socialization of america" is purely a result of Obama's administration needs to turn off the conservative talk radio for a brief moment every day and start thinking for themselves.


+1
In fact, it's not even just about thinking. There are mounds of evidence incriminating the one party system. You just need to open your eyes and break the matrix of R = Good and D = Bad (or vice versa as your personal case may be).

The collectivists are pulling the county out from under us!! :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:30 am 
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Carbide Insert wrote:
wheatstraw wrote:
Anyone who believes that the "socialization of america" is purely a result of Obama's administration needs to turn off the conservative talk radio for a brief moment every day and start thinking for themselves.


+1
In fact, it's not even just about thinking. There are mounds of evidence incriminating the one party system. You just need to open your eyes and break the matrix of R = Good and D = Bad (or vice versa as your personal case may be).

The collectivists are pulling the county out from under us!! :evil:


And a +1 as well!

This country was never meant to be run by any one party. Our system of government is based on people of different views debating and voting, not having a single block of professional politicians ram their personal financial agendas (and ALL their agendas are financial, if you dig down far enough) down our throats.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:50 am 
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It seems when both parties where in gridlock, one side could not ram through their agenda and both sides had to appeal to the middle ground to get anything done. Ahhh the good old days.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:17 am 
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mrokern wrote:
Same reason I try not to go to Walmart if at all possible. Saving 25 cents isn't worth it to me to support a company that treats workers like shit. And no, it's got nothing to do with unions...I'm no friend of unions myself...it's about doing right by other people.
-Mark


Respectfully Mark I find some disagreement with this analogy. The workers at Walmart are not compelled to work there. I know people that work there or have worked there and don't have a lot of complaints. However if someone were to feel that they were treated unfairly by their employeer that individual should look for other work. If as an employer I found that I could not hire or retain employees I would need to determine the cause for those circumstances.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Scott Hughes wrote:
mrokern wrote:
Same reason I try not to go to Walmart if at all possible. Saving 25 cents isn't worth it to me to support a company that treats workers like shit. And no, it's got nothing to do with unions...I'm no friend of unions myself...it's about doing right by other people.
-Mark


Respectfully Mark I find some disagreement with this analogy. The workers at Walmart are not compelled to work there. I know people that work there or have worked there and don't have a lot of complaints. However if someone were to feel that they were treated unfairly by their employeer that individual should look for other work. If as an employer I found that I could not hire or retain employees I would need to determine the cause for those circumstances.


+1


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