Employee handbook gun rules; does this violate the 2nd?
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:17 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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624.714 CARRYING OF WEAPONS WITHOUT PERMIT; PENALTIES.
Quote: Subd. 1b.Display of permit; penalty.(a) The holder of a permit to carry must have the permit card and a driver's license, state identification card, or other government-issued photo identification in immediate possession at all times when carrying a pistol and must display the permit card and identification document upon lawful demand by a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1. A violation of this paragraph is a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.
(b) A citation issued for violating paragraph (a) must be dismissed if the person demonstrates, in court or in the office of the arresting officer, that the person was authorized to carry the pistol at the time of the alleged violation.
(c) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder must write a sample signature in the officer's presence to aid in verifying the person's identity.
(d) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder shall disclose to the officer whether or not the permit holder is currently carrying a firearm.
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:38 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Yup; pretty clear.
_________________ Just a guy.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:12 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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gyrfalcon wrote: Do you actually have to admit to an officer that you're carrying a weapon? I thought all you needed to do is turn over your permit card and state identification. (d) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder shall disclose to the officer whether or not the permit holder is currently carrying a firearm.
This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:21 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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Andrew Rothman wrote: This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important.
It's one of the two legal obligations that obtaining a carry permit imposes on you.
Generally speaking, if you have a carry permit, but don't carrying a gun, the law imposes exactly the same obligations on you as it does on anyone else. The two exceptions are: 1, you're required to inform the issuing sheriff if you move. 2. You are required to tell a peace officer whether you're carrying a gun or not, if asked.
As far as I can see, all the other legal issues apply only if you're carrying a gun.
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TopGear
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:45 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:35 pm Posts: 82
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I've given some thought to this lately, even though I do not carry at work.
I have decided for now that if my employer wanted to search me, I likely would submit to a limited search of my person (definitely no cavity checks, disrobing, etc.) and my car, if demanded. If law enforcement were present, I would say "I consent to a search by the company, but I do not consent to a police search, nor a search in their presence." I keep thinking of that video and Kimberman's warnings not to consent to a law enforcement search ever.
Would this get me fired? I don't know.
Would I have the guts to refuse a police search, even if it cost me my job? I'd like to think so, but I don't know.
Is this a sensible response? I don't know. It seems to be the best balance I could come up with for my situation. I am certainly open to comments.
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:46 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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What do you do that your employer would even think of searching you? Do you work at a casino?
Other than employee theft, I can see no reason that an employer would ask for a search.
The employer guidelines that I am familiar with are all non-confrontational. I think it is much more likely that they would just ask you to leave the work site and not try to search you.
I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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Jeremiah
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:40 am |
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Raving Moderate |
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
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tman065 wrote: I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...
Being that your employer IS the police, would that be refusing a police search?
_________________ I'm liberal, pro-choice, and I carry a gun. Any questions?
My real name is Jeremiah (go figure).
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johnnyg08
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:43 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:29 am Posts: 193 Location: MN
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if you don't cooperate w/ the police investigation if you're a cop, you'll likely be reprimanded and probably terminated...disagree?
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:59 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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johnnyg08 wrote: if you don't cooperate w/ the police investigation if you're a cop, you'll likely be reprimanded and probably terminated...disagree?
No, you'll just get paid administrative leave until the whole flap blows over. It could take years.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:50 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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Jeremiah wrote: tman065 wrote: I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...
Being that your employer IS the police, would that be refusing a police search?
Well, I was speaking generically about employment. I certainly would not give up my right to be secure in any case. I also don't plan on being involved in a situation at work where someone thinks I stole something, either.
( I will make sure no one sees me )
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:42 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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Andrew Rothman wrote: This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important.
It was, but I had stayed up the entire night and had a few drinks before submitting that reply. If I was thinking at all, I was thinking more of the Constitution than permit to carry law.
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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Jeremiah
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:08 pm |
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Raving Moderate |
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
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tman065 wrote: ...I also don't plan on being involved in a situation at work where someone thinks I stole something, either. ( I will make sure no one sees me )
Ah, that's the kind of service-oriented policing we like to see around these parts...
_________________ I'm liberal, pro-choice, and I carry a gun. Any questions?
My real name is Jeremiah (go figure).
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:11 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ...
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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Jeremiah
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:18 pm |
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Raving Moderate |
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
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plblark wrote: Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ...
Yep. What Plblark said. To quote a magician acquaintance of mine: "See, folks, this here's 'humor'. Invented by the Greeks..."
_________________ I'm liberal, pro-choice, and I carry a gun. Any questions?
My real name is Jeremiah (go figure).
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:05 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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plblark wrote: Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ...
TY for saying what I shoulda.
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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